Goodbye for Now, My Friends
I've enjoyed writing this Write Out of Depression blog for the last three years. It introduced me to many of you fascinating readers. It saw me through the writing and publishing of my book, Writing through the Darkness: Easing Your Depression with Paper and Pen, in June, 2008. And I hope it has provided some information, encouragement and intriguing writing ideas.

Now, however, it's time for me to move on to other things. I am working on a new book! I'll also continue to speak at conferences on mental illness and on writing, and to lead my writing group for people with mood disorders at Stanford.

Please go to my website www.WritingThroughTheDarkness.com to learn about me, my book, and my schedule. You can also email me at: EMSchaefer@aol.com. From the bottom of my heart, thank you for reading and for your comments and contributions. Goodbye for now.
--Beth

TO WRITE: The Animals in Our Lives
To my great sadness, an important member of our household died this weekend: Our cat Onyx grew very ill and had to be put to sleep. Onyx was 21-years-old, ancient for a cat. As her name implies, she was black, and though she had a problem being overweight at one point in her life, she had become very thin and weak and had numerous medical issues.

As we drove home from the vet's office, my husband and I reminisced about the little furball she had been when we got her at eight-weeks-old, how she and her sister loved to sleep inside our shoes back then, how loudly Onyx could purr (you could hear her across the room), how she loved to be combed and have her ears rubbed, how in her shy period she would scramble under our bedspread when she heard the doorbell, how she would cheerfully (and loudly) great us, and how we all loved each other. I also recall how comforting it was to hold her on my lap when my depression pressed down on me -- perhaps she is what got me through sometimes. My heart aches for this long-time friend, but I am glad for her long and, I believe, happy life.

Play with this. . .
Do you have, or have you had, a pet? What does s/he mean to you? Is this creature a comfort when you are ill? How? Write continuously for 15 minutes on your pet, or your first pet, or another animal you've had a relationship with.

TO WRITE: Is There a Book in You?
After giving a talk at the recent national NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) conference about the healing aspects of writing in the treatment of mental illness, it happened again:
I was approached by several people who were interested in writing a book to tell the tale of their illness. Boy, do I know that feeling. I think that for some of us it's an innate reaction to the bizarre and hellish symptoms we've lived through and may still be facing. We want the world to understand us, to validate us, to stop stigmatizing us, and we want to process our own tale to make better sense of it for ourselves. I included parts of my own story in my book Writing through the Darkness: Easing Your Depression with Paper and Pen, and I'm now working on a memoir about the spiritual aspects of mental illness. It's healing for me, that's certain.

Whether or not you are inclined to write about yourself, many people feel there is a book in them that they'd like to write before they die. Do you want to record a family history for your grandkids? Detail all you've learned about a hobby or career? Chronicle a historic period you lived through?The following exercise is taken from Writing through the Darkness. Let yourself think big and go deep.

Play with this. . .
Imagine you were to sit down at the kitchen table and start writing or typing your first book. What would it be about? What would you really like to say to the world and leave behind in perpetuity?

Then consider this: What does your book topic tell you about what is important to you? Does your enthusiasm for writing about the ocean suggest you might want to spend more time at the beach? If you felt inclined to write a memoir, what events in your life would you like to get on paper?

TO WRITE: Going from Bad to Better
I left the blogosphere for a number of weeks recently due to some unexpected health problems, and I'm very, very pleased to be back. I'm also relieved that my problems were not of the mental/brain variety -- not only are those every bit as miserable, in my experience, but they are my personal nemesis, my challenge, my dark hole. No, I had gall bladder problems, including some complications, hospital time, and surgery. And I'm fine now.

All of this got me to thinking. . . what pulls you through when you are ill with mental/brain or other physical illness? I was blessed to have a supportive husband and insurance that covered most of the expenses, and I lucked into good doctors in the hospital and the OR. But I realized too that, despite a lot of pain, I wasn't as flustered as the staff seemed to think I'd be. The thing that left me on an even keel was all the depression, psychosis and suicidal times I've been through. I know what pain feels like. I have gotten through before, and I'll do it again. Mental illness has toughened me.

Play with this. . .

Writing continuously for at least 20 minutes total, describe a time you felt seriously ill in any way. Then describe what treatments, people, creative outlets, past experiences, rituals, mind-sets or other factors helped you through. Did you just need a certain amount of time to heal? Did hope or sheer determination help?

Finally, how can you apply these tools the next time you feel significantly depressed? It may be useful to keep a list of these resources in the back of your notebook or another safe place to refer to later. When you need such a tool, write about it for 10 minutes first to remind yourself how it feels, reengage with it, and plan how to put it to its best use.

TO WRITE: Making Lists

Keeping a to-do list usually gives me a sense of comfort and efficiency; I know I'm probably not forgetting anything and I can prioritize my tasks and work my way through them. Plus it's a great feeling to check items off as I accomplish them.


But I've found many other uses for lists too, including in my writing and teaching. Lists are a wonderful way to get your mind to open up and search for possibilities that it hadn't noticed before, including writing topics. For example:

• I sometimes ask students to write on a particular color (say, purple). If you don't know where to begin with such an assignment, try making a quick (don't overthink this!) list of things that are that color (lilacs, bruises, a stripe in the rainbow, a few people's eyes). Then choose one item and begin your writing with that. You may find a story about the fragrant vines in your garden or a memory of a childhood injury comes to mind.

• When you want to approach a very large topic such as beauty or democracy or depression, jot down a list of related words first. For depression, I might come up with: medicines, loneliness, lack of joy, supportive friends, ECT, writing, sleep problems, work issues and more. Now begin with one of these listed topics. If the one that interests you right now is still very broad, you may need to repeat the process. The specific words and ideas you come up with in this way allow you to make your writing more meaningful for you and your reader, and they are a great way to start creating a lengthy piece.

Note that I've indicated that you should write your lists quickly. This is a time to really let your mind wander freely and brainstorm. If you're not sure why you thought of "jellybeans" when you looked for associations to "depression," put it down anyway and move on to the next item. After you've written your list for several minutes, you can look back at what this means; perhaps your sister brought you an Easter basket to cheer you one spring when you were low.

Play with this. . .
Here's an exercise from my book, Writing through the Darkness:
Quickly make a list of at least 25 things you're good at. They might range from kissing. . . to reading a map. . . to doing rocket science. Then choose one, large or small, and write for 20 minutes on that skill. Who taught it to you? What's the secret to it? Do you love doing it? How could someone else learn it?

TO WRITE: Conversing with Depression

Let's continue our theme of writing dialog from the last post. I find it very powerful to deliberately have talks with other people or things in my mind, and especially to write down -- quickly and continuously! -- these interchanges as they happen, when unplanned, unexpected words, ideas or memories often appear as mysterious gifts.

I regularly imagine and record conversations with my own depression. More than simply reflecting on how I feel about being depressed, it lets me interact with my concept of the illness, get to know it, and get to know myself better.

Play with this. . .
How do you envision your depression or other troublesome emotion or situation? For example, is it a tornado that swirls around you? A monster that threatens from the closet? A black hole, a thief, a feeling of falling, or some animal like Winston Churchill's "black dog"? If you're not immediately sure, take about three minutes to quickly jot down at least five possible identities for that constellation of feelings, then re-read your list and choose one.

Next, writing quickly and continuously, create a dialog between yourself and your image of your depression. What have you always wanted to ask it about where it came from or what will make it quiet down or leave? What have you wanted to say to it in your times of anger? What does it want to tell you? Write this back-and-forth for 15 minutes. It may give you some clues or help resolve a little bit of your relationship with the illness, and it's a wonderful way to remind yourself that you are not your depression!

TO WRITE: She Said, He Said
Many professional fiction writers claim that writing dialog is one of the toughest tasks they face. While making those back-and-forths sound convincing is important, dialog is also crucial because it is a place where the writer's imagination is laid bare. Good dialog offers new information and uncovers the nuances of a relationship. It doesn't beat around the bush.

Try writing some dialog yourself. Fictional situations and characters sometimes uncover thoughts and feelings you were only dimly aware of, and can help stretch your imagination in new ways.

Play with this. . .
Choose two "characters" who will talk with each other. They may be living people, historical figures, made-up creatures, objects, even places like cities or rivers. Some methods for choosing are:

• Open a book and place your finger on any part of the page. Then choose the noun (person, place or thing) under or closest to your fingertip. Repeat to choose a second character.
• Ask someone to name two nouns or two people at random.
• Choose two body parts. You'd be surprised at what an eye and a liver have to tell each other.
• Choose two feeling states to converse, such as depression, anger, perfectionism, anxiety, joy, confusion, relief.

Then, by writing freely and quickly and simply "taking dictation" in your mind, not planning, take 10 minutes to write a dialog. The conversation may be serious, deep, focused, silly or freewheeling. Reread what you've written and write for 10 more minutes on how it felt and what it might mean to you. Perhaps this clarifies some conflict you've been experiencing or gives you ideas for other "characters" you'd like to hear converse.

TO WRITE: What Are You Doing Here?
In Chapter 5 of my book Writing through the Darkness: Easing Your Depression with Paper and Pen (info in profile) I describe benefits that come from using writing to examine your spiritual beliefs -- your understanding of the mysteries of the world around us and inside of us. (No, I'm not writing only to religious people here; it's different.)

By uncovering, defining and fully embracing our beliefs, we spiritual seekers can sometimes find a sense of meaning in life -- or in our depression. Indeed, I have known writing group members who come to feel that there is a reason, or even a benefit, to their depressed experiences, be it to learn and grow as human beings, to develop compassion and understanding, or to assist others in their healing. (p.61)

Furthermore, spiritual searching also carries health benefits. Many studies have demonstrated that people who consider themselves "religious" or "spiritual" or who attend religious services regularly: 1) have fewer illnesses, 2) live significantly longer, 3) specifically have less depression and, 4) have a greater likelihood of remission from depression. Practical applications of such findings to treatment of depression is under study too. For example, meditation, a component of many spiritual traditions, has been shown to be a useful adjunct to treatments for many health conditions, including depression. (p. 62)

Play with this. . .
Choose an issue that you consider what we call in my classes a "Big Question." For example, Who am I? What am I doing here? Where did we come from? What happens when we die? What is love? What is depression? Write continuously for 15 minutes on your question, being sure to include your personal feelings and experiences. Obviously there are no right or wrong ways to do this -- you don't need to hold to any particular belief system.

TO WRITE: Holiday Ups and Downs
So how do you really feel about this holiday season? It can be confusing. Family, friends, partners and mall stores may all expect bliss; magazine articles on SAD and newspaper editorials on the economic downturn may feel like harbingers of depression. Not an easy time for folks with mood disorders. I know I can feel up one minute and down the next for no apparent reason. So perhaps our goal should be to maintain some sense of stability, equanimity, groundedness. But how?

Play with this. . .
Write continuously for 20 minutes on: What helps keep you on an even keel at this time of year? Write as if you are sending this to a friend who needs your advice. For me, writing itself -- including being alone and quiet for 20 minutes -- helps a lot. So do occasional naps (even short ones), eating protein instead of too many Christmas cookies, not watching too much TV or surfing the net too much, and giving charitable gifts in honor of family members instead of just buying gifts for the sake of buying. What helps you?

This holiday period is likely to have both ups and downs for each of us. I wish all of you moments of joy, periods of peacefulness, and the awareness that life will likely settle down some soon, so persevere even if it gets tough.
With warm regards,
Beth

Amazing New Treatment Approved to Treat Depression
It really can be amazing! I know personally. . . .

What is it? The US Food and Drug Administration has now approved the use of a technique that uses strong magnets for "treatment resistant" major depression. This is great news for anyone who has not responded to at least two antidepressant trials and who would prefer not to be treated with the main alternative, ECT (electroconvulsive therapy or "shock treatments"), which can damage memory and carries some additional risks.

The new treatment is TMS or transcranial magnetic stimulation. It involves placing a device that generates a strong but precise magnetic field against a particular site on the left side of the skull, and delivering magnetic pulses for 20 minutes, five days a week for two to four weeks. The patient is conscious during the procedure, which can be done in a psychiatrist's office. What does the patient feel? Not a thing. What side effects are there? None reported at all except occasional mild headaches that respond to over-the-counter meds. No memory loss!

TMS will soon become more widely available, which I feel is fabulous news. You see, TMS completely turned my life around -- after many years of requiring a series of ECT treatments when a suicidal depression struck every few months, I was allowed to try the experimental TMS. Now, I'm technically diagnosed as bipolar, though I mainly experience depression, so my TMS targeted a different area of the brain, this one on the right side. Nonetheless, my treatment was a resounding success, as the newly-approved one has now been for many with depression in clinical trials. By the second week of treatments, the profound depression lifted and I was merely very depressed, but functional. By the end of week four of the five-minute treatments I was well! Really well -- back to baseline.

Now I needed to repeat this four-week series every few months for a couple of years as the depression returned, but the intervals between series gradually grew longer. And I'm delighted to report that I have not needed TMS (or ECT) for over two years! I've had no serious depression symptoms, and I've gotten my life back after 14 years of being unable to work or have kids. I wrote a book last year (see profile), I published it this spring and have been promoting it and, most important, my husband and I adopted a child this summer. Obviously I'm a huge TMS fan.

I know that no treatment works for everyone, but I believe that having more alternatives to try is the key for those of us who've been through every drug trial and don't know where to turn. This is great news.

Thanksgiving May Decrease Your Depression
It's true! And I'm not talking about the dopamine levels in turkey. In the last few years the new science of "positive psychology" has repeatedly shown that, "People who practice gratitude are more optimistic, report fewer physical symptoms of illness and pain, and lower levels of chronic stress and depression," as one researcher summarizes.

Sounds great, doesn't it? But note that you need to "practice" gratitude -- and that means writing it down. Aha! The key seems to be that we'll feel gratitude's positive effects not by thinking or even speaking about things for which we are thankful, but that these things must be written down.

TO WRITE. . .
The Thanksgiving season is the perfect time to start writing a daily list of three things for which you are grateful. They may be huge or tiny. I find it most helpful to write these as three sentences, "I, Beth, and grateful for...." You don't need to make a lengthy list or write for 20 minutes on any of these, although we sometimes do this in my classes. Just write down three things that make you feel thankful inside. To me, that feeling -- even if I can hold it for only a few seconds -- is incompatible with depression. So take three minutes and do it... now! A peaceful and joyful Thanksgiving to you all. --Beth

1) I, Beth, am grateful that I at last became a mom this year.
2) I, Beth, am grateful that it's raining out right now -- we need the water, and it smells fresh.
3) I, Beth, am grateful that I know that I'll have food available for dinner.

TO WRITE: Coffee, anyone?
If you are living with a mood disorder, I'm betting you have a special relationship with caffeine. Depressed? You may down coffee, tea and colas all day long trying to get an energy boost. Bipolar? You may need to avoid the stuff like the plague to keep it from nudging you up into hypomania or mania. And what about the large numbers of us who just can't sleep reliably, or who sleep too much, or who feel sedated by meds? Chances are you have thought deliberately about your caffeine intake. I've certainly pondered mine over my third cup of java.


I've always assumed that caffeine helps me stay more alert and focused, especially when I haven't had all the sleep I need. But a new study of coffee's effects says: NO! A new study in the Nov. 3, 2008 Human Psychopharmacology journal tested people taking caffeine or a placebo, both when they were rested and when they were sleep deprived. While some brainwaves did look different, they concluded: "The findings do not support the use of caffeine as a means for enhancing human function or as an antidote to the negative effects of sleep loss."

Are the effects of caffeine different in those of us with a mood disorder? We don't know. And that placebo effect resulting from our common assumption that it helps or hurts may play a role too. But it's worth considering all the evidence.

Play with this. . .
Write continuously for 20 minutes about your sleep patterns and your alertness and how you cope with any sleep or alertness problems. Have you found practical solutions? Share them! This is a big factor in improving and maintaining our health.

TO WRITE: Alternatives to Discrimination
I've been listening closely to advertisements for haunted houses this Halloween season. Last year an organization whose name I've gladly forgotten got national attention for creating a scary experience in what they called a mental hospital or psych ward, and for using numerous terms derogatory to the mentally ill, as well as trying to frighten people with the ideas of straight-jackets and unanesthetized electroshock treatments. Probably without thinking about what they were doing (I'll give them the benefit of the doubt here), they were painting mentally ill people as frightening, violent and dangerous. We are none of those things. Fortunately, after many letters and much protest, the group changed their theme entirely.

We've all probably felt some stigma around mental illness -- the comments from others that you should pull yourself out of your depression, or the dismissal of one's symptoms and oneself as "psycho." Very sadly, the worst result of the stigma around mental illness is that it causes many people to NOT seek treatment that could help them.

Play with this. . .
There are three sections to this exercise. First, write continuously for 10 minutes about any stigma you've been the object of for any reason -- your gender, race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, height, weight, age, etc. Then write for 10 more minutes on stigma you've experienced or observed pertaining to mental conditions. Finally, write for five more minutes on what you could tell yourself or that stigmatizer that would make you feel better about the situation -- perhaps pointing out to your boss or relative that you are coping with an actual illness and you are working hard to get well, or perhaps giving yourself a positive affirmation or self-talk to counter an uninformed or unkind comment.

TO WRITE: Are you "bogged down"?
An email crossed my screen recently with a question that was attributed to, or arose from, Oprah's discussion of Eckhart Tolle's ideas: What makes you feel less bogged down?

That phrase "bogged down" makes me think of swampy muck tugging at my rubber boots; it makes me think of the poem Picture of Depression by Jo Bobbie in my book (p. 89). Both evoke good heavy images and feelings of depression -- ones that could help non-depressed people ("neurotypicals," as one student calls them) get a clue about how a real depression really feels.

Play with this. . .
Consider that weighty feeling of being bogged down, then consider its opposite -- feeling buoyant and agile and free to move and be yourself. Now write continuously (without stopping to think a lot about what word or idea is coming next) for 20 minutes on what lifts you from one state to the other; what makes you feel less bogged down? It might be a healthy meal, a chance to sit in nature and just think, a new part-time job, running a marathon, talking to a friend, counting your blessings or writing in your journal. You might be able to generate a list you can turn to later when you really need it. After you write, determine what one thing you can do for yourself right now to feel less bogged down, and do it.

TO WRITE: What would you love to buy?
Economically, times are looking very grim for most of us right now. And, whether we want to face it yet or not, the holiday season -- with all it's frenzied buying and extra expenses -- is fast approaching. Does all this money talk sound overwhelming? Today I invite you to set aside those stressful issues and think about you.

Play with this. . .
Write continuously for 20 minutes on the question: What would you love to buy if you could? For me, an eagerly awaited new book is a favorite treat, so I might simply purchase more books if I had unlimited shopping resources. Your tastes may run to larger items -- a new house? car? a tropical island? Or perhaps you'd like to buy a gift for a loved one?

After you write, reflect on why this item is important to you. Is it something you really could go out and acquire today? If so, go for it, and see how wonderful you feel. If it's unattainable until you win the lottery, consider why you'd like it and brainstorm on whether there's a smaller alternative that could provide the same pleasure.

TO WRITE: Are Women and Men REALLY Different?
Gender differences have been discussed, and sometimes enforced, for eons, continuing in this election season, including tonight's VP debate. How real are these differences? More crucially, how important are they?

I'm observing all sorts of interesting things in this arena now that I have an 11-month-old daughter. Friends tell me they couldn't affect their girls' love of princess dresses even though they tried; men seem less likely to ask to hold the baby even when they beam contentedly when the offer is made and they reach out; strangers with a kind comment for the little one are unsure how to deliver it if s/he's wearing gender-neutral clothing below her short baby hair.

Play with this. . .
Write continuously for 20 minutes starting with: The real difference between men and women is... Or start with the differences between girls and boys. What differences have you observed recently? What conclusions have you drawn? Do you treat women and men differently? Do others role-cast you, and how does that feel? Is it advantageous or problematic to have differences? And do gender roles have any influence on your depression?

TO WRITE: The Power of Peers
I returned this week from the national conference of the Depression and Bipolar Support Alliance, held in Norfolk, Virginia. The theme of the meeting was "The Power of Peers," and the lectures I attended, the response to the one I presented, and the conversations I had with fellow attendees all underlined for me the importance of this concept. Many at the conference were leaders of local DBSA chapters around the United States; some were peer counselors, peer trainers or peer advocates for mental health parity. Most were also living with depression or bipolar disorder themselves, or had a close family member with one of these illnesses.

I was impressed. I heard from people who focus on reducing the stigma around mental health, from a comedian teaching others with mood disorders to do stand up too, and from good souls who have managed to get Medicare to cover peer counseling for mental illnesses in some places. It felt good to be among so many who have a lot on their plate just dealing with their health challenges, but who then go further and help others who are struggling too. Keynote speaker, renowned author and Johns Hopkins psychiatry professor Kay Redfield Jamison proclaimed to great applause: "If you've survived mental illness, you have an obligation to give back."

Play with this. . .
Part 1: Write continuously for 15 minutes on how your peers help you. Do you attend a support group and feel listened to each week? Has a neighbor or friend-of-a-friend ever reported that she has depression too, and that you can call if you need to? What have you read that supported you in understanding your illness and gave you coping ideas (perhaps Jamison's An Unquiet Mind, for example)?

Part 2: Write continuously for 15 minutes again, but now look at how you help your peers with a mood disorder. For example, I'm encouraging people to begin their own writing groups more and more lately, as I've benefited so much from leading mine for these last 10 years. But simply sharing your writing with a peer can provide an enormous support too -- discovering we're not alone in our experiences offers powerful support and healing too. Are there other ways you "give back"?

TO WRITE: What are you looking at?
I'm discovering that what everyone told me is true -- being a mom is a non-stop job. But, oh, are we having fun! And even when a break presents itself, like naptime for baby (when Mom can write a quick blog posting) or when Dad arrives home from work (and plays with baby) I'm finding it hard to stop watching her. After dinner the other evening, as daughter played happily on the floor by herself, Dad and I thought we would take an opportunity to have an adult conversation; instead we realized we were both silently staring at her with smiles on our faces, intrigued with her games.

Play with this. . .
Write continuously for 20 minutes starting with: My eyes were glued to. . . Write a memory of a time you couldn't stop watching something, or write some fiction, creating a short story of someone's visual obsession.

Then, at several times during the day, consider where you focus your attention. Are these the places you'd like to be staring at, or would you like to home in on other, perhaps more "positive," images?

TO READ: I'M BACK -- HAVING RECEIVED A GREAT BLESSING!!

After a several-week hiatus on two continents, I'm thrilled to be back in the blogosphere . . . and delighted to report that my husband and I are now proud parents of a 10-month-old baby girl! We spent two weeks going through the adoption details in China (after three years of going through adoption details in the U.S.), then made our way home just as the Olympics began there. All three of us are adjusting well and snuggling a lot, playing on the floor a lot, and dealing with wakings at 2am. Couldn't be better, even with having to just snatch a minute here and there to answer email, write blogs, take a shower. . . .

A few years ago I would not have thought there was a chance in the world that I'd ever become a parent as I had hoped. I was in the hospital too much, getting too much ECT, obsessed with harming myself; I was seeing and hearing things. I was too ill with my depression to work, study, or function very well socially, much less be responsible for another person's life too. And then there were all the issues around how my meds might affect a pregnancy, and how a pregnancy might affect my moods. But, lo and behold, a solution arrived as my recovery progressed these last three years or so. I feel tremendously grateful to the Universe for this opportunity, and it makes me want to say to everyone that there IS hope for better things, even when your health is very poor. Persevere, educate yourself, try different things and remember you are valuable. And write -- for clarity, understanding, peace and planning your recovery. Write.

TO WRITE: How Does Writing Save YOU?
I make a big claim in my book: Writing saved my life.

Other things saved my life too when I was going through years of life-threatening depressions: Medical treatment (a supportive psychiatrist, lots of meds, lots of ECT, experimental transcranial magnetic stimulation, hospital stays) also saved my life. . . and good people (my husband, my mother, a couple of great bipolar friends) saved my life. Without all three, I'm not at all sure I'd have made it.

Author Alice Walker has also been rescued by writing. She says, "Writing saved me from the sin and inconvenience of violence." Clearly, writing can aid many of us in surviving of life's most difficult trials. Some use writing to touch their spiritual core, some use it to recover from pain, others use it to plan their recovery.

Play with this. . .
Writing continuously for 20 minutes, reflect on why you write. Go deep. What would your life be like if you never did any personal writing such as journaling or crafting poems for yourself? Even if you don't find life-altering reasons for writing, you may find that writing helps you organize your thoughts and plan your day, or perhaps writing allows you to calm and soothe yourself after a difficult experience.

After you've written about writing's importance in your life, go ahead and give yourself 10 more minute (at least!) to write on what you need to write on today. . . . What's happening in my life? How am I feeling? What do I remember? What am I looking at right now? Have fun with this, and remember, this writing thing can help in very profound ways.